TakingITGlobal - Panorama - Interview at the...

Published on: Aug 27, 2002

Topic:

Type: Opinions

https://www.tigweb.org/express/panorama/article.html?ContentID=548

Johannesburg, August (GYRP) – What is environmental democracy?

At one of the WSSD's first side events, The Regional Environmental Center for Central and Eastern Europe organised a sharing session on the successes of participatory democracy and good governance, in working towards sustainable development. In order to better understand these, and related, concepts, here are some excerpts from an interview with:

Alexander Juras, Deputy Executive Director of The Regional Environmental Center for Central and Eastern Europe.

What exactly is environmental democracy?

Environmental democracy is about the democratic right of people to participate in all decisions with an effect on the environment -- business decisions, decisions in the field of transport, political decisions regarding new legislation which affect the environment. It offers citizens the possibility to participate. ... In the traditional system of representative democracy, other than through elections, there is no way for the public to influence decisions. Especially with things so complex, and with so many issues at stake, elections are not enough. Other slots, windows and opportunities are needed to influence the decision process.

A lot has been said about the "bottom-up" approach with environmental democracies, about involving more of the general populace in the decision-making process. However, in countries currently making the transition from being a command economy to a market economy, and which have a reputation for low literacy levels, how can one attempt to promote awareness when the issue of basic education has yet to be addressed? Is that not jumping the gun?

In Central and Eastern Europe, this is not really an issue: the people are educated ... the system is highly developed. It is different in South Africa, of course, but in Central and Eastern Europe, illiteracy is not an issue, it is really minor.

Public awareness, although I understand its complex nature, is primarily about getting information. In many countries, environmental information is treated as a state secret. It is hard to participate and build sound opinions when you do not know. ... For the development of public participation, information has to be provided on the environment and state. With respect to raising awareness, schools could teach people how the environment functions, what are the impacts of taking different decisions...

Do you think there's a case for the external imposition of change, when there is a resistance to the transition towards environmental democracy?

That is not needed. You cannot force it. There has to be a strong belief that it is useful, and not through imposing international conventions on a country that does not understand the principles. They need to, by themselves, come to the conclusion that it is useful, then they will care for the future of the environment.

Institutions should offer possibilities, but not impose. They could share experiences and have people get to know more, through training and travel. Then something could happen in their heads, about what we should be doing. Because Third World and post-colonial countries are especially sensitive to developed countries coming in, and you could end up achieving the opposite of what you had intended.

However, some environmental issues are very pressing. If we were to leave countries to slowly come to their senses about the benefits of environmental democracy, might it be too late?

It is hard, and is a problem in the West. Unfortunately, sometimes it is only when environmental pressure is so big, that people cannot stand it, that something is done. In Europe, real progress with nuclear safety only happened because of Chernobyl, and is was only after the Sanoz accident that affected the Rhine River in the 80s, that there was major progress in water and river protection. But that is the wrong approach, to only have real notice, real progress when the environmental problem becomes so pressing, that you have to do something.

The only thing, is to make people aware. People should have to see the benefits ... we need to make them understand what there is to gain. For example, with Third World developing countries, we could link environmental protection with business opportunities. Like with projects here in South Africa that engage the local community in the protection of national parks, and let them gain, from ecotourism, and job opportunities in park administration, and many other jobs. Apart from environmental awareness, the people also get out something. When the economic situation is bad, people do care about the environment. The environmental solution has to be something about economic sustainable development. In the end, it has to go hand in hand.

While we are on the point of economic development, another focus at this Summit, has been about including private enterprises in the course of events. But commercial entities have, as one of their top priorities, the protection of short-term profit margins. Also, often, big businesses have the economic clout to circumvent government regulations for their own ends, like in the case of the car industry and the fuel efficiency levels of engines. Bearing this in mind, can we indeed rely on businesses to work towards sustainable development?

In principle, I would not rely on businesses to be let alone to find solutions to achieve sustainable development. I think it is even dangerous, because nowadays, especially with globalisation, there is too much short term interest and shareholder interest, and success by making profits in short run, by performance on the stock exchange, which forces businesses. You mentioned the car industry. The car industry is not really the driving force nor an effective vehicle. There is not enough interest for the production as customers do not care about fuel consumption or reserves. What we need is , to bring consumers and the industry to develop alternative products. One way is to increase fuel prices, put taxes on fuels. Then consumers will not go for cars because it becomes too expensive. The car industry will respond in less than a year. ... through increasing fuel prices, and other legislative methods. It never hurt businesses to be innovative and think in terms of sustainable development. ...

When you talk of good governance, are you basically referring to the government setting the tone for action?

Basically, all matters of social, economic and environmental life are regulated, such that you achieve sustainable development. That means you have governments who are dedicated to achieving sustainable development in their actions. ... Good governance means that the public has the possibility to participate, and also that there is the possibility that businesses can play roles in achieving sustainable development. ...

In order for environmental democracy to work, it has already been ascertained that the public needs access to information. However, if the public is not prepared for the kind of information that they get, will this not result in a higher propensity for extremist actions and views with respect to environmental concerns?

It needs to be step-by-step. The South African government representative , said that if you want to make adjustments, it must be step-by-step. If change is at once, you cannot cope -- institutions and people will be overwhelmed. Independent institutions -- not the government; it can be non-governmental organisations -- can support the process and take care that the opposite of what you want is not reached instead. International institutions, like the United Nations, have their limitations. They are bureaucratic and there are too many limitations in the United Nations system. Any change has to be carefully handled and needs a masterplan. In Central and Eastern Europe, the transition was revolutionary in a sense, but it was a process that was step-by-step in most countries, but it’s not the end yet.

Onto more general issues, do you feel that poverty is, more often than not, used as a convenient umbrella term to sweep other issues under the carpet?

This Summit will focus on the environment, sustainable development, poverty and environmental degradation. In the Third World, it is the other way around: the poverty issue is sometimes used by the government as an excuse to focus on the economy to make jobs for people, and the environment later. This is short-sighted.

What do you think is the role of youth in working towards sustainable development?

The process of achieving sustainable development, requires that we target youth, as sustainable development is about using resources so that the next generation, which is growing up now, has the same living standards, or even better, and so on. This is so that we do not destroy the base for human beings and other beings of the world.

Youths do play an important role. Beyond that, because adults do not, or do not want to, see it, we cannot underestimate the impact of youths on adults. The youths of today, will be the decision makers of tomorrow. They understand issues of the environment and sustainable development better than the present generation, and may be able to do things in a different and better way. In Central and Eastern Europe, non-governmental organisations are 90% driven by young people. These young people mostly have an impact and achieve something. That alone, shows the importance of youths. Lots of the projects by our organisation target young people, and have training programmes for them.

That sounds like a positive forecast for the future!

I hope so.

© Global Youth Reporters Programme

« return.



by Natalie Morris
Published on: Aug 27, 2002
Topic:
Type: Opinions
https://www.tigweb.org/express/panorama/article.html?ContentID=548


Johannesburg, August (GYRP) – What is environmental democracy? At one of the WSSD's first side events, The Regional Environmental Center for Central and Eastern Europe organised a sharing session on the successes of participatory democracy and good governance, in working towards sustainable development. In order to better understand these, and related, concepts, here are some excerpts from an interview with: Alexander Juras, Deputy Executive Director of The Regional Environmental Center for Central and Eastern Europe. What exactly is environmental democracy? Environmental democracy is about the democratic right of people to participate in all decisions with an effect on the environment -- business decisions, decisions in the field of transport, political decisions regarding new legislation which affect the environment. It offers citizens the possibility to participate. ... In the traditional system of representative democracy, other than through elections, there is no way for the public to influence decisions. Especially with things so complex, and with so many issues at stake, elections are not enough. Other slots, windows and opportunities are needed to influence the decision process. A lot has been said about the "bottom-up" approach with environmental democracies, about involving more of the general populace in the decision-making process. However, in countries currently making the transition from being a command economy to a market economy, and which have a reputation for low literacy levels, how can one attempt to promote awareness when the issue of basic education has yet to be addressed? Is that not jumping the gun? In Central and Eastern Europe, this is not really an issue: the people are educated ... the system is highly developed. It is different in South Africa, of course, but in Central and Eastern Europe, illiteracy is not an issue, it is really minor. Public awareness, although I understand its complex nature, is primarily about getting information. In many countries, environmental information is treated as a state secret. It is hard to participate and build sound opinions when you do not know. ... For the development of public participation, information has to be provided on the environment and state. With respect to raising awareness, schools could teach people how the environment functions, what are the impacts of taking different decisions... Do you think there's a case for the external imposition of change, when there is a resistance to the transition towards environmental democracy? That is not needed. You cannot force it. There has to be a strong belief that it is useful, and not through imposing international conventions on a country that does not understand the principles. They need to, by themselves, come to the conclusion that it is useful, then they will care for the future of the environment. Institutions should offer possibilities, but not impose. They could share experiences and have people get to know more, through training and travel. Then something could happen in their heads, about what we should be doing. Because Third World and post-colonial countries are especially sensitive to developed countries coming in, and you could end up achieving the opposite of what you had intended. However, some environmental issues are very pressing. If we were to leave countries to slowly come to their senses about the benefits of environmental democracy, might it be too late? It is hard, and is a problem in the West. Unfortunately, sometimes it is only when environmental pressure is so big, that people cannot stand it, that something is done. In Europe, real progress with nuclear safety only happened because of Chernobyl, and is was only after the Sanoz accident that affected the Rhine River in the 80s, that there was major progress in water and river protection. But that is the wrong approach, to only have real notice, real progress when the environmental problem becomes so pressing, that you have to do something. The only thing, is to make people aware. People should have to see the benefits ... we need to make them understand what there is to gain. For example, with Third World developing countries, we could link environmental protection with business opportunities. Like with projects here in South Africa that engage the local community in the protection of national parks, and let them gain, from ecotourism, and job opportunities in park administration, and many other jobs. Apart from environmental awareness, the people also get out something. When the economic situation is bad, people do care about the environment. The environmental solution has to be something about economic sustainable development. In the end, it has to go hand in hand. While we are on the point of economic development, another focus at this Summit, has been about including private enterprises in the course of events. But commercial entities have, as one of their top priorities, the protection of short-term profit margins. Also, often, big businesses have the economic clout to circumvent government regulations for their own ends, like in the case of the car industry and the fuel efficiency levels of engines. Bearing this in mind, can we indeed rely on businesses to work towards sustainable development? In principle, I would not rely on businesses to be let alone to find solutions to achieve sustainable development. I think it is even dangerous, because nowadays, especially with globalisation, there is too much short term interest and shareholder interest, and success by making profits in short run, by performance on the stock exchange, which forces businesses. You mentioned the car industry. The car industry is not really the driving force nor an effective vehicle. There is not enough interest for the production as customers do not care about fuel consumption or reserves. What we need is , to bring consumers and the industry to develop alternative products. One way is to increase fuel prices, put taxes on fuels. Then consumers will not go for cars because it becomes too expensive. The car industry will respond in less than a year. ... through increasing fuel prices, and other legislative methods. It never hurt businesses to be innovative and think in terms of sustainable development. ... When you talk of good governance, are you basically referring to the government setting the tone for action? Basically, all matters of social, economic and environmental life are regulated, such that you achieve sustainable development. That means you have governments who are dedicated to achieving sustainable development in their actions. ... Good governance means that the public has the possibility to participate, and also that there is the possibility that businesses can play roles in achieving sustainable development. ... In order for environmental democracy to work, it has already been ascertained that the public needs access to information. However, if the public is not prepared for the kind of information that they get, will this not result in a higher propensity for extremist actions and views with respect to environmental concerns? It needs to be step-by-step. The South African government representative , said that if you want to make adjustments, it must be step-by-step. If change is at once, you cannot cope -- institutions and people will be overwhelmed. Independent institutions -- not the government; it can be non-governmental organisations -- can support the process and take care that the opposite of what you want is not reached instead. International institutions, like the United Nations, have their limitations. They are bureaucratic and there are too many limitations in the United Nations system. Any change has to be carefully handled and needs a masterplan. In Central and Eastern Europe, the transition was revolutionary in a sense, but it was a process that was step-by-step in most countries, but it’s not the end yet. Onto more general issues, do you feel that poverty is, more often than not, used as a convenient umbrella term to sweep other issues under the carpet? This Summit will focus on the environment, sustainable development, poverty and environmental degradation. In the Third World, it is the other way around: the poverty issue is sometimes used by the government as an excuse to focus on the economy to make jobs for people, and the environment later. This is short-sighted. What do you think is the role of youth in working towards sustainable development? The process of achieving sustainable development, requires that we target youth, as sustainable development is about using resources so that the next generation, which is growing up now, has the same living standards, or even better, and so on. This is so that we do not destroy the base for human beings and other beings of the world. Youths do play an important role. Beyond that, because adults do not, or do not want to, see it, we cannot underestimate the impact of youths on adults. The youths of today, will be the decision makers of tomorrow. They understand issues of the environment and sustainable development better than the present generation, and may be able to do things in a different and better way. In Central and Eastern Europe, non-governmental organisations are 90% driven by young people. These young people mostly have an impact and achieve something. That alone, shows the importance of youths. Lots of the projects by our organisation target young people, and have training programmes for them. That sounds like a positive forecast for the future! I hope so. © Global Youth Reporters Programme « return.