Kari Leong: Thank you, Evan. Today's guest is retired Navy Captain Jerry Coffee, a keynote speaker, author, and media commentator. Captain Coffee was held captive as a POW for seven years, which has inspired him to share his story with thousands of people a year across corporate America, and international groups as well. Please welcome to Greater Good Radio, Captain Jerry Coffee. Welcome to our show!
Jerry Coffee: Hello. Hey, Kari, hello there! Thank you very much for having me.
KL: Could you tell us what you're currently doing?
JC: Kari, currently I have a lot of irons in the fire; but currently, from a professional standpoint, I'm still speaking on a full-time basis even though I'm involved in other things, which kind of take away from that a little bit, but I'll be speaking about 24, 25 times this year, professionally, and that doesn't count the things that I do in the community for military groups and churches and schools and civic groups that kind of thing, as well. So, staying really busy, and traveling quite a bit, but looking forward to staying home more.
KL: Is your travel related to the business, with your speaking? Or do you have something else that you're doing?
JC: Well, we have family all over the country, actually, but most of the travel relates to our business, because I speak, literally, all over the mainland and in some foreign countries as well. That gives Susan and me a chance to kind of coattail our business trips with family visits as well.
KL: Could you tell us a little bit about your business?
JC: Sure. It's something I never in my wildest dreams thought that I'd be doing. Nobody goes to college -- well, some people do now -- but in my day, nobody went to college to be a professional speaker; there was no kind of a degree or any kind of training for that, necessarily. It's a very strange, unusual profession, actually. I ride on an airplane and the person next to you will be saying, "Well, what do you do?" and I'll say, "Well, I'm a professional speaker." They might as well say, "Well, you don't look like a professional speaker!" "Well, I'm not speaking today, that's why."
[Laughter]
EL: Do they ask you to give them a portion of your speech, because they can tell you're a comedian?
JC: I always wait for the next question, and it usually is something like, "Well, what makes you a professional speaker? What do you speak about?" And I say, "Well, I'm usually billed as an inspirational or motivational speaker." And they say, "Hmm." And I know they're thinking it, say, "Well, what, do you speak about your experiences, or did you write books, or what do you do?" And then it ultimately comes out, "Well, you know, part of my time as a naval officer for twenty-eight years was as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. I was a Navy pilot and was shot down over the country of North Vietnam, captured, and spent the next seven years and nine days there. I feel that, having survived the experience, as most of my friends did there, you know -- in that group, survival wasn't anything extraordinary -- but going beyond survival was where the real mission was, and by that I mean, being able to not only survive the experience but to return with honor, and that became our mission, our goal. But, having survived the experience, I came home, and felt a very strong responsibility to capitalize on the credibility that accrued from that experience, from that survival. And the vehicle for capitalizing on it became professional speaking, spreading that message; and basically it's as simple as trying to plant the seed of belief in people's minds that had it somehow been you, or them, in my little rubber-tired sandals all those years in prison, you would have survived for the very same reasons that I did, because look, there's nothing extraordinary about me, really. With the same training and orientation going in, you could have survived too. And if people believe that -- and hopefully I help them to believe a little bit -- then it changes their perspective on all the things that are going on in their own lives at any given time, whether that be personal or professional setbacks and challenges, or financial difficulties, or personal physical challenges, that kind of thing. The feedback that I have received over the years has convinced me that it's been a productive effort, and for me it's been very gratifying.
EL: How do you hold it all together after being in an experience like that? What was that experience like?
JC: Well, it was very bizarre in some ways, Evan. It was an experience that taught me to be in the moment, certainly to understand that, to be present, for example, and to understand that life certainly has its ups and downs, and peaks and valleys, and that if you don't experience both you're not really living life. Through that kind of philosophy you sort of learn how to embrace even the pain that comes with life, the setbacks and the challenges, and the things that you wouldn't sign up for, certainly, but understand that that's just as much a part of life as the joy and the celebration that goes along with it. With that kind of understanding, it's hard to get down. You stay up, and you understand that it doesn't really matter what happens, this is part of life, and it's what I signed up for by being here, and that I look for ways to make a positive experience. I look for the purpose in everything that happens to me. That was one of the most significant things about the experience in Vietnam, I think, was somewhere along the way, probably after a year and a half or so, I realized that there was a purpose to what I was going through, but I didn't know what it was. I just had faith that there was a purpose. Sure enough, when I came home, I began to realize that the speaking that I've been able to do was the fulfillment of my purpose for going through all that for all those years as a POW.
KL: How long were you involved in the military before becoming a prisoner of war?
JC: Well, let's see. I joined in 1957 and was shot down in 1966, so about nine years. I was 32 years old when I was shot down, and 39 when I was repatriated. I was a Navy pilot; I had flown from aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, and then of course in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War, and had a fine career going, made the rank of lieutenant commander a year early. Although I hadn't put on the rank literally before I was shot down. But, while I was there I made commander and you know took me a while to Commander Coffee after I got out because it was a foreign concept to me. So my career was sailing around and you know, gee whiz, I zigged when I should have zagged over North Vietnam and I kind of got put on hold, but we all realize that even though we might have been shot down and been captured and became POWs it didn't change the fact that we were still in combat and we still had a significant duty to uphold.
EL: For those of us who have obviously never been in this type of experience can you share with us an account or something there that helped you get through that hard time?
JC: Sure. One of the most unexpected advantages to that experience and I use the term advantage purposely, was the solitary confinement. Believe it or not there is so much to be gained from being in solitary. Stop and think about it. When was the last time you or any of your listeners out there had a chance to just take one day with no radio, television, fax machines, memos, meetings, beepers, iPods, you name it and get away from it all and just think about yourself and how you got to where you are or maybe more important how you're going to get to where you want to be. The solitary confinement gave me the opportunity to go back into my life to the very earliest memory I could possibly recall, maybe three years old, four, whatever it was, go back and relive my entire life and minute detail. It took months! In that process you really get a handle on yourself. You begin to understand yourself and who you are and why you are the way you are and why you believe and feel the way that you do. What motivates you, helps you to understand yourself, to be in touch with your human-ness, to maybe even forgive yourself for the first time in your life, perhaps. But, it never would have been possible without all that time to think, to just think about yourself. We stayed very busy and that was only part of it, we would communicate with each other through the walls by tapping from cell to cell. We would challenge each other with questions and we would study foreign languages and sciences and mathematics through the walls. My audiences usually crack up when I sometimes say you know sometimes I go to bed there -- I say bed, but it was really a concrete slab -- and I'd say to myself "Gee, I didn't get done everything I wanted to do today." Here you are in this prison complex, and people would think, "Oh, my gosh, must have been so boring." Well it could have been boring if you let it, but we didn't let it get boring. We realized that we had a rare opportunity to experience something that a vast majority of Americans never have a chance to experience. It even rationalized it as "Well, I guess you know if you believe in a code of experience you should get tortured at least once in your life." That's dark prison humor, but you know you really begin to think that way.
KL: How were you able to keep such a good attitude because you know a lot of people might just get captured, and then be like "Why me?" then be depressed for a while. How did you keep a good attitude and how long was it that you knew that you could continue and keep going and you could have the fellowship with the other POWs out there who were also near you?
JC: It's interesting you use the line "Why me?" because certainly that's exactly what it was. You get in to prison and the reality would begin to set in and you say "Wait a minute this is supposed to happen to the other guy, never to me. Why me?" And the real turning point, Kari, came when my prayers, and there were a lot of them, believe me, daily, and spiritual faith was one of the most significant aspects of my survival. But, my prayers finally changed from "Why me, God?" to "Show me, God. Show me what I'm supposed to do with this. What are you preparing me for?" What am I supposed to learn from this experience? Help me to use it to go home whenever that might be as a better, stronger, smarter person in every possible way that I can be. To go home as a better naval officer, to go home as a better Christian to go home as a better American citizen, to home as a better husband and father and friend to all my friends; every possible way help me to use this time to productively.
JC: Then having realized that there was going to be a purpose to what I was going through, although I didn't know what it was the entire time I was in prison. But, just knowing that there was a purpose that there was something to build toward and that every day wasn't just a void or a vacuum in my life, a waste of time. That made a huge difference, and that turning point was when I realized that there was going to be a purpose to what was going through.
EL: How'd you know you were going home?
JC: Oh, I never did! But, you know every time I'd go to sleep at night the last thing I would think was, "Well, that's one day closer, whenever it is."
KL: When you folks were able to communicate with each other, you had talked about tapping and through code and things like that. Was there ever a time I guess at the beginning where you tried to figure out "How can I escape this? How can I get out? And what can we do together to be stronger although we're apart?"
JC: Well, the communication system that we used was by tapping on the walls allowed to be strong. In fact, our little three word motto was "Unity over self". Unity over self, which of course as a team motto, or a family motto, or a corporate motto, and has infinite application. But, to maintain that unity we knew we had to communicate, and by tapping on the walls we stayed in touch and the senior officers who we followed in accordance with our military code of conduct. We were able to pass out policy and give orders and we could help each other, we could console one another, encourage one another, pass the time together. The communicating was especially important. In fact, it would take up a lot of the time each day, and if you were really isolated the thing that would take up a lot of time is trying to figure out how to reach the closest guy to you, figure out some creative way to communicate with that person, whether it be write a little note with a burnt matchstick or a piece of red brick and leave it someplace there was a pretty good chance the guy might find it or how to whisper to a guy around a corner or get his attention or line of sight so you could kind of flash your hand using tap code, all kinds of ways. It was a constant challenge and your mind was constantly busy. I thought my brain would atrophy from lack of use when I first got there, but just the opposite took place.
KL: Thank you Captain Jerry Coffee. Stay tuned for more on ESPN 1420.
KL: We're back with retired Navy Captain Jerry Coffee, a keynote speaker, author and media commentator. Before break, we were talking a little bit about communication and tapping. Are you able to give us a little bit of example of what tapping is for people that are not in the military or not really familiar?
JC: Well, it wasn't really a military issue. Most naval aviators know Morse Code, with dots and dashes, that's just rote memory. Our little communication system, that we called tap code, was based upon 25 letters of our alphabet. We throw out the letter K because you can use a C interchangeably most of the time. Then we arranged those 25 letters in five rows of five letters each, one row on top of the other. As you guys are looking at it, for example, it would be a through E on the top row, F through J on the second row, third row, fourth row, fifth row of five, putting Z at the lower right hand corner. It gives me five horizontal rows and five vertical columns all in the same little square. A is up in the corner, first, row, first column, so if I want to tap an a on the wall I tap [tap] once for the row, [tap] once for the column. So A is one and one. B is in the first row, but the second column over, so [one tap, two taps] one and two. C is first row, third column [one tap, three taps], and so on. N is right in the middle, third row, third column, so [three taps, three taps] and of course Z is in the lower right hand corner, fifth row, fifth column. [five taps, five taps] That's how the system was based and we developed all kind of refinements and when the guy who was receiving the message you were sending recognized a word he would just give you a double tap and you'd cut off the word and go onto the next one. It was amazing how fast we could communicate, almost at a regular conversational rate. You could translate those numbers in the taps to flashing your hand, you know, one two three four, one two, that kind of thing, and Admiral -- now Admiral Jeremiah Denton, retired and also a US senator, retired -- had the presence of mind to flash with his eyes the word torture when he was being interviewed by an anti-war activist group. That was the first indication our government had that we were being tortured there. But, he was using Morse code, because in blinking your eyes you can close your eyes and hold them longer or just a little blink. So he would spell out torture by blinking his eyes. An amazing feat, and he's answering questions at the same time, but had the presence of mind to be able to communicate in Morse code at the same time. Amazing.
EL: It's amazing that you guys can communicate through tapping and eyes and things like that, and today still, people generally have a tough time communicating.
JC: That's one of the things I emphasize, Evan, as you can imagine, I talk about communicating in the presentations that I give, and that people don't have to tap through the walls in offices. We sometimes get so wrapped up in our technology that we forget to get up out of our chair, walk around the corner and go into another office and communicate with another person eye-to-eye. With that personal contact you have more empathy, more understanding, more insight into what's going on in that person's life rather than with an email, for example. Person-to-person communication in business is extremely important and I think technology has led us away from that, to our detriment.
EL: What advice can you give to businesspeople out there on things they can do to improve their own communication?
JC: Compassion and understanding, I think, is very important. Communicating in a way where, as you can imagine, we were tapping on the walls, brevity is paramount, and to not get carried away with verbosity and so on. If you have a message or something to communicate you simply say it open and honestly, without worrying about being politically correct. Be sensitive, but don't hurt another person's feelings unnecessarily. But, you have to get the message out; business has to be done certainly. Communicating briefly, to the point, and face to face is most important. Susan and I, across the same desk, we work facing each other, sometimes will send an email to each other, not when we're sitting there, you know you'll be seeing her in five minutes, but why not just wait and tell her, but I'll just send her an email. It's crazy.
KL: We sit across from each other, and while we're still sitting there we'll still email each other, so it's a good example.
JC: It's just one example of how technology has separated us in our humanness, and that's one of the things that a good leader has to be conscious of is to try to maximize those person-to-person contacts.
KL: Are you able to share us a little bit about that you involvement in the community and some of the organizations that you're involved in?
JC: I'd be glad to, Kari. One of the reasons that I'm here is that I believe so much in what the two of you are doing for our community in emphasizing the importance of coordination among businesspeople to businesspeople, to the name of your radio, Greater Good Radio, it says it right there. Sometimes we forget about the "greater good," because we get so wrapped up in our little unique business issues. But everybody doesn't have the luxury of doing that, because sometimes business is just darn tough and you don't have time for community involvement and I recognize that. I'm lucky to have reached a point in my career where I do have more time now, and I've been the chairman of the Governor's Civil Defense Advisory Council and I've been active in the City and County of Honolulu Charter Commission as one of the commissioners in the last several months, as we winnow through the recommendations for changes to the charter and the changes that will go on the ballot in November, for example. That's been a very challenging, but also gratifying, endeavor. I'm a very strong advocate of Boy Scouts of America. I don't have very many regrets in my life, but one of them is that I didn't stay a Boy Scout long enough to make Eagle. I got one rank away and then I learned about girls; I guess my interests changed at the wrong time. But, I really admire the Boy Scouts of America and what they stand for, the kind of young men -- and women in Girl Scouts' case -- that they turn out; really good solid citizens for our country. I eagerly speak to civic organizations and Rotary, Kiwanis, Elk's Club, things like that, to help people understand the importance of community involvement. When I speak I talk about faith in ourselves, in one another, faith in our country, America and faith in God. The faith in one another is where we communicate with each other and solve problems together by coming together as a civic organization where we get involved -- and as an aside, it's good networking for business too, but nevertheless the primary motivation has to be for the good of the community, and then everything good accrues from that.
EL: Why are you involved with these things? Why is it important to you? Why is it important for you to work with these community organizations in Hawaii?
JC: Well, Hawaii is my home, in the first place. As I just wrote in a column recently, I love Hawaii, I've been here for 32 years and I live here by choice. I'm on it by choice, so to speak. Just like when I lived in California, born and raised in California, I called myself a Californian, but now I'm in Hawaii, so I'm Hawaiian, of Hawaii, not a native Hawaiian obviously, but I'm of Hawaii now. I choose to live here. I love the community, I love the aloha spirit, I love the culture and the language and the music and I just wouldn't want to live anywhere else if I could help it. That's one of the reasons I try to be active in the community, to help improve wherever I can. I feel a responsibility as well, to the old thing -- much is given, many are requested. That's a paraphrase, but if you have the means to give back, be involved, then I think you should. The Civil Defense Advisory Council is also important to me because I take seriously the terrorist threat to our country and to our community, particularly to Honolulu right now. I fear that too many people still have their heads in the sand. They're in denial about what we face in our war against Islam-fascist terrorism, and to make sure that our community is safe and to make sure our readiness level is maintained at a high level, and that people are informed about their needs in a disaster or emergency situation. I was very gratified that the governor also shares that feeling and has devoted much of our surplus to upgrading the shelters that are necessary, and even going so far as to learn the lesson from Katrina and making space for people's pets in the shelters as well. So, it's because I feel so deeply for my community and for Hawaii and for our country, America, and the threats that are posed to both entities through international terrorism, it makes me want to be involved that much more. It's love; it's true love.
EL: Lastly, in closing off, maybe there's something inspirational you could share with our listeners out there? Everyone thinks they go through hard times, but maybe there's something to take them through it, maybe you can share a personal thing?
JC: Well, one of the things that always inspired me there in that prison environment was the way that we tried to take good care of each other. When the man in the cell next to you is down and hurting; being punished, whatever the reason, maybe his ankles were locked in the ankle stocks at the foot of his concrete slab and his hands were manacled behind him and he'd been like that for four or five weeks, you'd get up to your wall frequently and you'd tap to him [taps], which is GB, and that means God bless, and he knew that that also meant be tough babe, hang in there, I love you, and I'm praying for you, you bet you were. Then each night, when things would quiet down before you'd go to sleep, you'd tap to the guy in the next cell [taps] GN, good night, [taps] God bless, god bless you [taps] GBA, God bless America. Every single night. That kind of trust and faith and care in one another.
EL: Thank you so much Captain Jerry Coffee, for joining us today on Greater Good Radio Hawaii and sharing you inspirational message. For more information or a transcript of today's show please visit us online at greatergoodradio.com. This is your host Evan Leong and Kari Leong saying please join us next time for another episode of Greater Good Radio Hawaii.
« return.