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An “Egyptian” young man nicknamed coptic2001, has forwarded to me an E-mail message saying that on a special website, there is a web-page in which Islam is shown on his “Bad real face”, he said that it is a response against Muslims “Because they detest Copts and Christianity”!
What I want to say to this person, that the bad behavior of a little minority of the followers of any religion doesn’t represent the core of the ideology of that religion; you can’t say that Hitler with his German cross on his neck and his fascist racist Nazism system is representing Christianity! By the same way you can’t consider Bin Laden and his terrorists as a symbol of Islam.
It is clear that this person-if we follow his own way of thinking- is neglecting the inspection courts held by the Queen Isabella 1st of Spain against Andalusia’s Muslims in the 15th Century, and that has ended Islam in Andalusia through genocide and atrocities.
And if I can’t say that Isabella 1st represents Christianity through her “Inspection courts”, why do I blame some extremist Muslims who ignore their religion and who have never heard about the Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) recommendation when he told the first Muslims that the Copts of Egypt are the most religious people and that they are more than friends; they are our relatives with a “Family Bond”. Besides, we can find a very nice Quranic Verse that translates as follows: “And you (the Prophet) will find that the closest people to those who believe-in terms of love and charity-, are those people who say: “We are Nazarethans (Christians)”, and that is because of the existence of religious men and monks among them, and because that they do not have any hauteur”.
It seems that this “Coptic” has forgotten that the Coptic culture and religion is still in Egypt for fourteen centuries, living peacefully with the Muslim neighborhood.
What to say to this person now is that if I want to show that my religion is good, then I must find some better way than saying that other religions are bad, and I think that criticizing other religions to show that my religion is better, is the most fanatic and uncivilized thing to do.
This person and all fanatics have to know that showing that their religion is politically correct is by letting people see how that religion makes life good, honest, safe and fair. Moreover, I think that all religions, including my religion, recommend their followers to respect other religions and that what others believe in.
Let’s respect then ourselves and other people, and educate ourselves about other religions, before exploding unfounded and baseless arguments.
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Writer Profile
Saladin
My name is Ayman el-Hakea, I am a Construction Engineering graduate from the American University in Cairo. My origins date to an interesting mixture of Yemeni, Moroccan, Albanian, and Egyptian ancestors. I always try to be a moderate Muslim, I like animation, geopolitics, comparative religion, and football. I like to be with "people"...and I hope my writing isn't boring for anyone.
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Comments
Egyptian Coptics Sharon Goodmansen | Oct 17th, 2003
In contrast to the writer's statement that ".....Coptic culture and religion is still in Egypt for fourteen centuries, living peacefully with the Muslim neighborhood", I submit the following:
Saad Eddin Ibrahim, a 65 year old sociology professor was sentenced to 7 years in prison in July 2002 by the Egyptian authorities. The official reason: his decade-old statements that the government represses Egypt's Christians. As head of the Ibn Khaldun Center for Development Studies in Cairo, Ibrahim had organized a conference in 1994 about minority rights. At the time, Egyptian law required Coptic Christians to secure the president's approval before repairing their churches. While the Egyptian government's official line is that Muslims live in seamless harmony with Christians, Ibrahim deemed the Copts a minority that suffers government persecution.
In 2000, violence erupted between Muslims and Coptic Christians in Upper Egypt; some two dozen people died, many more injured, and a hundred shops and homes were looted. Of the previous FIFTY-FIVE sectarian clashes over thirty years, Ibrahim judged this one to be "the ugliest and largest".
In August 2002, President George Bush suspended a 130 million dollar planned hike in aid to Egypt, including with his decision a letter of concern about Ibrahim's conviction. After a third trial in March 2003, Ibrahim was cleared.
This is not the "...the bad behavior of the little minority of followers of any religion...", this is the official governmental policy of an Islamic country.
Doesn't sound like peacefull coexistence to me, but rather state sanctioned religious repression.
For more information, please read "The Trouble With Islam, A Wake-Up Call for Honesty And Change", by Irshad Manji
Egyptian Coptics Sharon Goodmansen | Oct 17th, 2003
In contrast to the writer's statement that ".....Coptic culture and religion is still in Egypt for fourteen centuries, living peacefully with the Muslim neighborhood", I submit the following:
Saad Eddin Ibrahim, a 65 year old sociology professor was sentenced to 7 years in prison in July 2002 by the Egyptian authorities. The official reason: his decade-old statements that the government represses Egypt's Christians. As head of the Ibn Khaldun Center for Development Studies in Cairo, Ibrahim had organized a conference in 1994 about minority rights. At the time, Egyptian law required Coptic Christians to secure the president's approval before repairing their churches. While the Egyptian government's official line is that Muslims live in seamless harmony with Christians, Ibrahim deemed the Copts a minority that suffers government persecution.
In 2000, violence erupted between Muslims and Coptic Christians in Upper Egypt; some two dozen people died, many more injured, and a hundred shops and homes were looted. Of the previous FIFTY-FIVE sectarian clashes over thirty years, Ibrahim judged this one to be "the ugliest and largest".
In August 2002, President George Bush suspended a 130 million dollar planned hike in aid to Egypt, including with his decision a letter of concern about Ibrahim's conviction. After a third trial in March 2003, Ibrahim was cleared.
This is not the "...the bad behavior of the little minority of followers of any religion...", this is the official governmental policy of an Islamic country.
Doesn't sound like peacefull coexistence to me, but rather state sanctioned religious repression.
For more information, please read "The Trouble With Islam, A Wake-Up Call for Honesty And Change", by Irshad Manji
Egyptian Coptics Sharon Goodmansen | Oct 17th, 2003
In contrast to the writer's statement that ".....Coptic culture and religion is still in Egypt for fourteen centuries, living peacefully with the Muslim neighborhood", I submit the following:
Saad Eddin Ibrahim, a 65 year old sociology professor was sentenced to 7 years in prison in July 2002 by the Egyptian authorities. The official reason: his decade-old statements that the government represses Egypt's Christians. As head of the Ibn Khaldun Center for Development Studies in Cairo, Ibrahim had organized a conference in 1994 about minority rights. At the time, Egyptian law required Coptic Christians to secure the president's approval before repairing their churches. While the Egyptian government's official line is that Muslims live in seamless harmony with Christians, Ibrahim deemed the Copts a minority that suffers government persecution.
In 2000, violence erupted between Muslims and Coptic Christians in Upper Egypt; some two dozen people died, many more injured, and a hundred shops and homes were looted. Of the previous FIFTY-FIVE sectarian clashes over thirty years, Ibrahim judged this one to be "the ugliest and largest".
In August 2002, President George Bush suspended a 130 million dollar planned hike in aid to Egypt, including with his decision a letter of concern about Ibrahim's conviction. After a third trial in March 2003, Ibrahim was cleared.
This is not the "...the bad behavior of the little minority of followers of any religion...", this is the official governmental policy of an Islamic country.
Doesn't sound like peacefull coexistence to me, but rather state sanctioned religious repression.
For more information, please read "The Trouble With Islam, A Wake-Up Call for Honesty And Change", by Irshad Manji
Egyptian Coptics Sharon Goodmansen | Oct 17th, 2003
In contrast to the writer's statement that ".....Coptic culture and religion is still in Egypt for fourteen centuries, living peacefully with the Muslim neighborhood", I submit the following:
Saad Eddin Ibrahim, a 65 year old sociology professor was sentenced to 7 years in prison in July 2002 by the Egyptian authorities. The official reason: his decade-old statements that the government represses Egypt's Christians. As head of the Ibn Khaldun Center for Development Studies in Cairo, Ibrahim had organized a conference in 1994 about minority rights. At the time, Egyptian law required Coptic Christians to secure the president's approval before repairing their churches. While the Egyptian government's official line is that Muslims live in seamless harmony with Christians, Ibrahim deemed the Copts a minority that suffers government persecution.
In 2000, violence erupted between Muslims and Coptic Christians in Upper Egypt; some two dozen people died, many more injured, and a hundred shops and homes were looted. Of the previous FIFTY-FIVE sectarian clashes over thirty years, Ibrahim judged this one to be "the ugliest and largest".
In August 2002, President George Bush suspended a 130 million dollar planned hike in aid to Egypt, including with his decision a letter of concern about Ibrahim's conviction. After a third trial in March 2003, Ibrahim was cleared.
This is not the "...the bad behavior of the little minority of followers of any religion...", this is the official governmental policy of an Islamic country.
Doesn't sound like peacefull coexistence to me, but rather state sanctioned religious repression.
For more information, please read "The Trouble With Islam, A Wake-Up Call for Honesty And Change", by Irshad Manji
Sharon Goodmansen | Oct 17th, 2003
Sharon Goodmansen | Oct 18th, 2003
Thanks Amira Sobeih | Oct 22nd, 2003
Dear Ayman,
Actually i'd like to thank you for such great Article,
can you keep a secret?
a freind of mine told me about your article & how's it so cute,
but i didn't think it'd be great such like that.
so smooth, so simple, so aimable, so easy touch our souls
Thanks :)
Thanks Amira Sobeih | Oct 22nd, 2003
Dear Ayman,
Actually i'd like to thank you for such great Article,
can you keep a secret?
a freind of mine told me about your article & how's it so cute,
but i didn't think it'd be great such like that.
so smooth, so simple, so aimable, so easy touch our souls
Thanks :)
Thanks Amira Sobeih | Oct 22nd, 2003
Dear Ayman,
Actually i'd like to thank you for such great Article,
can you keep a secret?
a freind of mine told me about your article & how's it so cute,
but i didn't think it'd be great such like that.
so smooth, so simple, so aimable, so easy touch our souls
Thanks :)
Azeem Azeem Notta | Oct 28th, 2003
i think that your article means alot yo us because i am also a muslim ismaili and i think that you are not the only one who is being questioned about our religieon being "hatred and opposing other religions" you do make a good article on how other types of practicism of religion is influencing us and in what ways. I do agree on your article(s) because it has a sense that all the muslims are involved as "one" together and that not let other people misjudge of us. My overall feedback on this article was very smooth and secuinced.
From the author Ayman El Hakea | Nov 10th, 2003
Clearly, doublespeaking and misleading thoughts can be generated when we mix foreign policy, and official government with odinary people who practice their religious beliefs.
When you claim that Egypt is officialy oppressing copts, under the Islamic inspiration, you first, instead of wasting your time in reading something that two Muslims can differ on, have to-at least- to read any translation of the Qur'an (where two Muslims cannot oppose), where you can find the verses cited in my articles. Second, you can't say, while sitting there in your country, that Egypt is an Islamic state, yes, 94% of Egypt's population are Muslims, but the Egyptian state adopts French Law, within an Islamic context, and with many contradictions to the Qur'an and the Sunnah (The standard revelatory sources of Islam).
Third, as a Muslim,in Egypt,I spent 13 years in a Catholic Brotherhood school in Alexandria, I had many christian friends, and I don't feel that I am favored in front of the law with the respect to them.
Remeber also that the U.S. future agenda is to divide my country into an Islamic state in the north, and a christian state in the south, and that the (incidentuous)violence you was talking about in upper in Egypt, is manipulated and motivated by foreign intelligence (Like in Algeria, Sudan, and several countries), and has nothing to do, with-at least regarding me-with what I think of my Coptic neighbors and friends, following true Islam.
Finally, let me ask you a question, have youu read the Egyptian law?
If you found something that enhances your point of view-and you won't-, then it would not represent what people in Egypt -Muslims and Christians-feel against each other, as I see in front of my eyes here on the Egyptian ground.
And may peace be upon you.
Eqyptian Discrimination Against Coptic Christians Sharon Goodmansen | Nov 16th, 2003
Mr. Ayman Hassan el-Hakea,
While I certainly appreciate that you personally do not discriminate against your Coptic Christian neighbors, and that you even count many of them among your friends, that does not unfortunately represent the manner in which Coptic Christians are collectively viewed and treated by the Egyptian government and society. Also, while I am not saying that what the Egyptian government does directly represents the Muslim religion, how such a Muslim dominated country treats its non-Muslim citizens unavoidably reflects back on the religion of the majority, especially when the policies being examined are ones that deal with religious based differences. Also, the fact that I do not personally discriminate against African-Americans cannot alter the fact that until the laws were changed, African-Americans were prevented from voting in many states in the U.S., and that prior to that slavery was legal, until after the Civil War. Only by honestly and openly recognizing injustice can there be hope that it be eliminated.
Denying that it exists only ensures its continuation.
As such, what follows is an excerpt from an article from an officially sanctioned publication of the Vatican.
If you wish to verify the accuracy, you may go directly to:
www.chiesa.espressonline.it/english
I would also like to point out that this article is based on an interview with an Eqyptian who has long standing experience with these issues, and not some outsider representing a foreign conspiracy.
The full article is titled: 'The Church & Islam. "La Civilta' Cattolica" Breaks The Ceasefire'
You can verify its accuracy by going to:
www.chiesaespressonline.it/english
"Christians in Egypt. The Humiliation Continues"
An interview with Youssef Sidhom, director of
More on Egyptian Repression & Violence Against Coptic Christians Sharon Goodmansen | Nov 17th, 2003
In researching the subject of relations between Egyptian Coptic Christians and Muslims, I came across the following article which is posted on the website of the Middle East Media Research Institute, which can be found at www.memri.org
under the Subject heading:
'Reform In The Arab and Muslim World'
Special Dispatch Series - No. 352
March 8, 2002 No.352
Egyptian-American Writer: The Egyptian Regime Encourages Persecution of Christian Copts
Recently, an Egyptian writer living in New York City wrote a critical account of the Egyptian government's treatment of its Christian Coptic minority, in the Arabic-language London daily "Al-Quds Al-Arabi." Following are excerpts of the article:
"
A thank you note Ayman El Hakea | Nov 21st, 2003
Dear Mr. Goodmansen,
I really thank you for your prepared argument, and your good reasoning, although I believe that those reported attacks and atrocities against Christians are willingly agglomerated and amplified (and perhaps created), by the western media. Speaking in your language, if we admit that religious extremism is responsible for atrocities against Copts today, then we have to recall in our mind the history of Islam in Egypt, that strongly contradicts the present situation-as you see it-. Islam has entered Egypt in 621 A.C., when it used to be under the Byzantine rule, at the time of the Muslim Caliph Omar. Amr Ibn-Al 'Aas, the commander of the Muslim army that entered Egypt, became the first Muslim governor of Egypt. His army did neither destroy churches, nor ancient temples and statues, as did the Talibans in Afghanistan. Moreover, he was welcomed by the Copts who were brutalized under the Byzantine rule, because of their Coptic Orthodoxy that differs from the Church of Constantinople, and you may read about what the Byzantines has done to Egyptians Copts in what is known as "The Era of the Martyrs", where Coptic people were burned alive, and were purified alive.
An important incident occurs when Amr Ibn-al 'Aas, the Muslim governor of Egypt, was called by the Caliph Omar in Medina, because the sun of the first had hit a Coptic boy. The Caliph ordered the Coptic boy to hit the sun of Amr, saying to him:"Hit the son of the ruling family!" in front of Amr.
Recalling another part of Islamic history; we believe that the prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) was married from the Egyptian woman Hajar (Other than Sarah), and from whom he got his son Ishmael. Ishmael then had a son called 'Adnan, whose far grandson was our prophet Muhammad; so this demonstrates-at least to Muslims-that there is a family bond between Egyptians and the prophet of Islam.
Next, Muhammad was married form a Christian Coptic woman called (Maria), and fro whom he had his son Ibrahim.
This proves another existence of a family bond between the Muslim prophet and the Egyptian "Copts".
That's why our prophet said in his "Good-Bye Speech", that he urges every Muslim to be kind, helpful and gentle to COPTS of Egypt's because they have a "dignity and a family bond". (Note that the two basic sources of Islamic law are the Qur’an and the Prophetic narrations or Sunna)
Later on, when the Caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in 618 A.C., he signed with the Christians of Jerusalem what is known as the "Omarian Treaty”, in which they were informed about the new religion and its total respect of "the people of the book".
In Islam, the "people of the Book", are Christians and Jews, and people who had followed the old prophets and messengers of God, such as Adam, Noah, Idris, Abraham, Ishmael, Jacob, Isaac, Joseph, Zechariah, John, Solomon, David, Salih, Hud, Lot, Shu'ayb, Elias, Moses, Aaron, Daniel, Samuel, Nehemiah, Jesus (as Muslims believe to be a prophet), and Muhammad, whom every Muslims believe to be the prophets of Allah. (Allah is an Arabic translation of the English word God, and not a statue is Poken, the US military spokesman believes)
Knowing all the previous stated above, any claim that Christians are treated as infidels reflects a faulty understanding of Islam, and not a faulty Islam. I believe that we both agree that religion, is the instructions of God, and that the religious group (such as Orthodoxy and Catholicism in Christianity, and Sunnism and Shiism in Islam), is resulted from different ways of understanding the words of God, therefore any irresponsible practice doesn't reflect faulty wordings of God Himself. Hence, treating Christian or Jewish minorities under Islamic law, as infidels, reflects a lack of understanding of the difference between "infidels", and "the people of the book”, who "are in God's protection", as stated in many prophetic narrations.
Concerning the actual situation in Egypt, economically, you may see that Copts own the most successful enterprises, and are given equal treatment with other Egyptians. This is not a joke; the largest company in Egypt today in terms of budget and income, is Mobinil telecommunications, owned by Najib Sawiris, a Coptic Businessman. In my neighborhood in Alexandria, a Church was enlarged in the district of Cleopatra, beside which was a small mosque, that was neither enlarged nor got its minaret taller. In the district of Roushdy, three new churches were built in only two years, and this is true. I don't feel religious-based, or government-lead discrimination, but I can predict and feel that some Muslims misunderstand their religion, and this part of the problem (i.e. the behavior of Muslims), was not included in my article; what was included are the proper teachings of Islam, and not what is currently done in the name of Islam.
And that is not the problem of the US or any other part, but it is a problem of Muslims’ incomplete interpretation of Islam.
I am not telling you all that stuff in order to be enemies or something like this, but I want to tell you that Islam nowadays is far different from the one that used to be practiced 1400 years ago, and that's why Muslims unfortunately, are in their present situation now...
Finally, I have to admit that I had the honor to have such a great discussion with an arranged and enlightened person like you, and I hope that we have to keep that friendship between us, because at the end, different opinions of two persons is something apart from harmony and respectfulness between them.
Violence in Upper Egypt Ayman El Hakea | Nov 22nd, 2003
I agree with you that actions of violence do occur in upper Egypt's governorates (such as El-Fayoum, Beni-Suef, El-Minya, Sawhaj, Assyut, and Qena). But you have to know something about the upper Egyptian society, that might show you that these violence incidents do not relate to religious extremism.
Upper Egypt, differs completely from lower Egypt in terms of its social composition; people are divided into tribes, of Arab origin, and, knowing that Upper Egypt's society was out of the range of direct government domination during centuries; the tribal community had its own laws and rituals, away from the government law, that is unaccepted in many cases by the tribal society.
To more clear, when someone from a tribe X is killed by someone from a tribe Y, people from tribe X manage to kill somebody of the tribe Y, in order to "revenge" or take their "THAR" as known in southern Egypt. The cycle of violence is then permanent until now between countless tribes, whether they are Muslims or Christians, it is a matter of revenge, and not a matter of religious fanatism.
Western pens try to stir up these incidents in order to create a picture of a religious discrimination in Egypt, whithout even making any effort in knowing something hidden about the culture of Egypt.
Moreover, lots of Egyptian Christians in the US and in Europe try to profit from the commonality of belief between them and the western society, in order to attain some additional objectives in Egypt, by the name of religion, and under the broken stereotype of religious discrimination, which I again, admit that I don't see it in Egypt.
Again, if you are more sure than me, who am living in Egypt, about the existence of some discrimination against Copts, and you urge me to admit it, and to act in order to solve it; then I remind you that I had told you before that from my place as an individual, I do neither detest nor discriminate against Copts, and I try usually to inform my friends and my community about the ideal way Islam has put to deal with the "people of the book", so I suppose that even if discrimination against Copts exists as you have said, as a governemnt policy, then at least, that doesn't put me in the wrong place, as an individual acting from my place..
A thought! Ayman El Hakea | Nov 22nd, 2003
If the Egyptian law permits the divorced converted-to-Islam father to take his children from his Christian ex-wife, then what do we know about similar situations in Christian-inpired laws of Europe?
Christians teach Arabic in Egypt Ayman El Hakea | Nov 22nd, 2003
As a comment on what you have stated that "A Christian may not teach Arabic, because this material is linked to the teaching of the Islamic religion", I would like to tell that in the Catholic scholl I used to be in, my Arabic teacher in my final year 2001, was a Christian oldman called Mr.Morcos, and who was also giving private lessons in Islamic Studies, do you beleive this?
He was a very nice man, he passed last year...he knew a lot about Islam, Qur'an, and Arabic language and literature, and he was practicing his job legally as an Arabic teacher.
Moreover, my sister had a Christian Arabic teacher called Alice, during her primary school.
On another hand, the matter of religion's display in identity cards is something we see in our eastern culture as similar to the display of the sex, and is not an index of discrimination.
THAR in upper Egypt Ayman El Hakea | Nov 23rd, 2003
There is something crucial that I forgot to tell you about revenge accidents in Upper Egypt; when a member of tribe X kills a member of tribe Y, people from tribe Y do not tell the police about the criminal, if they know him, and they regard the revenge as a matter between the two tribes, in which the government has nothing to do. Perhaps that's the answer of what you have asked before about the situation of free killers in Upper Egypt. (Mu grandfather Khalid Hassoona was a supreme judge (head of a court) in Assyut in 1962, in Sawhaj 1963, which are both in Upper Egypt, and he told me on countless occasions about circumstances around Thar offenses. He is a "reliable" source, because he was chosen between several Egyptian judges to a missionary in Libya, in order to establish the first Libyan-lead court in the history of Libya in 1961, in the city of Sebha.)
Another thought Ayman El Hakea | Dec 8th, 2003
Hasn't anyone read about the Coptic Egyptian who was killed with his Muslim Egypian friend in L.A., just after 9-11, because of their Middle-Eastern appearance? Hasn't anyone read about the banning of the Islamic headscarves in French public schools?
Let everybody concentrate on his own country first, then, looking in matters of other countries shall be a later step.
Final Comment Ayman El Hakea | Sep 12th, 2004
We have a say in Arabic: "He who has a house with glass, shouldn't throw others with stones", I think this say matches our situation here..
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